Advocating for Frontline Workers at Davos: Reflections from a Social Entrepreneur after the World Economic Forum

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain typos and inaccuracies.

Amie Vaccaro: Welcome to High Impact Growth, a podcast from Dimagi about the role of technology in creating a world where everyone has access to the services they need to thrive. I'm Amie Vaccaro, Senior Director of Marketing at Dimagi and your co-host. Today I sit down with my co-host, Dimagi's CEO and co-founder, Jonathan Jackson. Jonathan recently got back from the World Economic Forum annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland. The World Economic Forum brings together leaders from government, business, and civil society to address the state of the world and discuss priorities for the year ahead.

This year's theme was cooperation in a fragmented world. I've secretly always wanted to attend the World Economic Forum, but of course it's pretty hard to swing an invite. And so I was curious to hear all about it from Jonathan on his return and thought that you dear listeners might be interested as well. Enjoy! So you've just gotten back from the World Economic Forum in Davos and we haven't actually chatted. So this is the first time we're chatting and I'm just really curious to hear about it.

What was it like? Why did you go? I have so many questions, but maybe let's start with just the basic of high level. How was it? Yeah, thanks Amy. It was a really enjoyable event to be able to attend. The last time I was there was back in 2016. The reason Dimagi and I attend the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos is because we're part of the Schwab Foundation for Social Entrepreneurship. This is a foundation that was set up by the founders of the World Economic Forum, Hilda and Klaus Schwab, that seeks late stage social entrepreneurs and gives them this award to be part of this community.

There's over 400 community members and I think across the social enterprises they've awarded nearly a billion lives have been impacted through those organizations. So just an amazing group to be a part of and they invite a subset of those 400 to attend. I think it's really important that we get to be part of that community and the meeting in Davos and speak on panels and try to raise the profile of social innovation and social entrepreneurs. And we've been really fortunate to be a part of that community for many years at this point.

I felt like an old timer being there, but it was great and it's so motivating and inspiring to hear the amazing work that that group does. And so a lot of what we get to participate in is kind of closed door sessions just amongst ourselves within our network. And hearing the amazing work that everybody's doing. You know, you're talking to military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military event, which has all sorts of heads of state and CEOs and people from civil society, business, et cetera. And so that meeting was really great to be able to see. I know the World Economic Forum in Davos take a lot of heat for the elitism of getting together. And one of the things I found interesting was, I was reading all the criticism and things heading up to it, and it gets labeled

as this place where a lot of global elites come together to make decisions on how the world's supposed to work. And from my vantage point, having attended and being part of that community, it's much more about trying to understand the problems we're facing. At least in the meetings I attend, there's not a lot of solutioning per se. It's much more trying to grapple with these multiple crises we have going on concurrently. The term popularly used there was polycrisis. And really trying to wrap your hands around what's going on, because I think the world, and the complexity that a lot of organizations are facing, whether they're totally normal, for-profit, or a social enterprise, is increasingly complex these days to understand what role an individual can play, what role an organization can play. And so I really found it interesting to listen to a lot of folks that we normally don't interact with from

different industries and pharma and geopolitical experts on these different dynamics. And so for me, it was great. And then there's a specific healthcare vertical that we attend a lot of events with. That was great to see a lot of the multilaterals and foundations that we were able to have a lot of great conversations with while there. That's awesome. That's really interesting. So was your experience like a separate sort of track that they created for the social entrepreneurs, but then you also got to merge with the others? Or how did that all play out?

Yeah, that track is only about four or five hours of dedicated programming. So it's a small track that's like the closed-door sessions I was referring to. But it's kind of every industry, every sector is trying to... You know, you have to give them the military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military specifically on the topic of social innovation and social entrepreneurship, and increasingly more as one member of a panel also with the CEO of a major company who are both targeting climate change or environmental justice or healthcare innovation.

So we've continued to see the role that social entrepreneurship plays get more and more prominent at these events. And I think its role in society is also increasing as people recognize the need for what Dimagi calls as one of her values, embracing complexity and looking for new solutions to some of these massive social challenges we face. Yeah. So I've been like over the weekend, I was trying to listen to like all the kind of news coming out of it just to try to get a pulse and figure out what to ask you about.

And it definitely felt like this is a place where people go to try to get their messages heard. And it seemed like a lot of competing different messages. But I love how you framed that around like it was really not so much about solutioning and solving the world's problems, but to talking about the problems. And I want to hear. What was your take on like what were the most pressing problems that were top of mind? Yeah. I mean, the geopolitical risk that is kind of outside of the domain of what Dimagi focuses on as an organization, but with, you know, the conflict in Russia and Ukraine having no end in sight and no obvious solutions that was talked a lot about by some of the experts I listened to.

The one that does affect our work and all of our community's work that was, you know, top of mind for many people is just the looming global debt crisis, particularly in emerging markets. And so there was a lot of discussion on how to resolve that. What parts of this is a debt crisis versus a liquidity crisis? I'm sorry, I went to a lot of sessions by economists trying to wrap our head around this because we know there's, you know, increasing need dwindling resources, you know, on an actual basis, even if budgets are slightly increasing from local budgets or global donor budgets, that's that's a reduction in real dollar terms, just given the rate of inflation that we've seen.

And, you know, even some of the commitments from donors that are increasing year over year funding, it's not actually keeping up with inflation. So in fact, available budgets in real terms are going down. So I think that's one of the biggest takeaways and trying to think through what are the potential global frameworks that can help solve these problems and what discussions need to be had. So that was a huge one that affects us. Also a lot of the talk on pandemic preparedness, I think there's a lot of concern that the, you know, massive disruption.

We just went through COVID is not leading to the right preparedness strategies at the global level or at the country level. That definitely was consistent with what we've seen, unfortunately. So I think as I was talking with folks, I was really advocating for this idea that I've talked about before, where investments in pandemic preparedness and making sure healthcare systems are responsive and resilient and health workers have the training they need and, you know, have better jobs, investments we make in routine healthcare are the same investments we need to make for pandemic preparedness.

Yeah. First, we need a strong health care system and we need to be able to coordinate and collaborate across country boundaries quickly as the needs arise. So I think that's a big area that a lot of people were concerned about is we're not making those appropriate investments, you know, at the end of COVID. And then obviously with global recession potentially looming, the ability to have these discussions around making these smart investments is also a lot more difficult than when you're expecting economic growth.

And what would you say, Jonathan, was your kind of key message that you were trying to get out? You know, we talked about everyone sort of came with a message. Was that sort of the key message around really leveraging these pandemic preparedness efforts and trying to make sure that they're actually really focused on primary health care and like strengthening health systems? Or talk me through kind of your POV and like what you wanted to be getting out of it. Yeah, that's a great question, Amy.

For us, we had a lot of discussions with multilaterals and global foundations. And organizations, the message I really wanted to talk to folks about is aligned to our five-year strategy and our first priority, which is better jobs for better outcomes. So as we look at this, you know, inherently more complex, more crisis-ridden global environment we're heading into, I think it's more important than ever that we're looking at the frontline providers across all industries. But, you know, we were specifically primarily talking about health care and my discussions and making sure we're on a path to creating better jobs and better outlooks for these jobs.

Yeah. Thank you. That was a lot of what my advocacy angle was, is really ensuring that people are focused on how are we creating better jobs? You know, how are we making sure that these frontline providers want this job today, that this job is better tomorrow, and that we're drawing more people into this workforce? Love that. And was that message resonating? What kind of response did you get as you were in conversations with folks? And also, were you hearing those kinds of similar messages from others as well?

Or was this like a pretty bold new take? You know, it was really refreshing because we got a really strong positive. And I think it was a really strong reaction to it. And I don't feel like it's something that everybody is talking about or everybody is saying. Like, it felt like we had a pretty unique point of view to be focused on making sure we have better jobs. There's a ton of people focused on improving the consumer experience and saying, you know, consumer-oriented health care, consumer-oriented agriculture and these things.

And I'm totally on board with that as well. But our focus on better jobs for these frontline providers, I think, was relatively unique and resonated a lot once we started talking with folks and saying, well, like, you know, if people don't want this job, what's the endgame here? How are you in this? Yeah. And again, you know, we've talked about this, but one of the beautiful aspects of this explosion of AI and technology, which everybody was talking about, right, is when these new technologies are leveraged appropriately to support building a responsive and adaptive workforce, I think there's huge potential for technology.

And that's where we're, I'm trying to focus. Obviously, there's tons of downside. Like, I think one of the obvious concerns everybody was talking about with respect to AI and chat GPT. had just come out, has taken the world by storm at the time of its recording, was job displacement and these things. I think it's valid to be concerned if people think, oh, great, now I can replace my worker with this AI bot. I think that's crazy, particularly for the environments that we're in.

The job of these workforces wasn't something that was prominently talked about and was something that I was excited to be able to advocate for. And I'm optimistic about the potential technology can have to amplify these frontline workers, and that's where we're focused. That's so good to hear. And I totally agree. I think it's this idea that AI is going to come and take all these jobs is, yes, that's a possible risk. But really what we need to be looking at is how can AI be better supporting and enabling the people that are most essential to care, especially for 50% of the world that's lacking access at this moment.

And as a side note, with the growing crises with cybersecurity, there was this really interesting speaker that I had an anecdote for, and I don't actually have a citation for what was said. But they said some people ran an experiment where they hacked a researcher's order for genetic material. So these labs that take genetic material to do all these experiments and CRISPR and the ability to edit genomes, that is extremely secure. There's all these biosafety regulations. But you can easily infiltrate somebody who's not that into cybersecurity and do an attack and phishing to get them to click on a link they're not supposed to and then change their order.

So the actual wrong product comes into the biosafety. And it was just a demonstration of the attack vectors in this increasingly advanced technological world are pervasive. And thinking about IT security as the reason your biodefense system is going to fail and what the implications of that are was fascinating. So there's a lot of future thinkers that were also connecting dots that they hadn't thought of before that I found really fascinating. You mentioned that cybersecurity example.

Were there any other kind of like wild new ideas or just things that? Like really made you stop and think and you're like, that's a new perspective I hadn't considered before. One social entrepreneur has this really cool, I think it's called Greystone model that they both run themselves and then advocate for others to adopt, which is anybody can walk in the door and get a job. You put your name on a waitlist. There's no interview. There's no CV. There's no background check. And it's a way to truly, you know, improve equity and access to these new technologies.

You can give them military military military military military military military military cost for talent. And so that was fascinating to me. And then they've gotten other massive companies to adopt these practices. And so like, you know, huge innovations, because we all talked about like, you know, remove the pronouns and remove the names from these resumes and get rid of the resume altogether. I was also in this humanitarian session on response with some amazing speakers from Chef Jose Andres and Michael from GiveDirectly and others. And my table was interestingly talking about, are we even attacking the right problems, right? Like, are we thinking about the scope of the problem in the right way and then the solutions in the right way? And so I think something like just get rid of interviewing altogether, as opposed to how do you unbias the interview? It's kind of one of those things where you're like, oh, as soon as you

hear it, you're like, interesting, you know, like, will that work for me? Maybe not. And like, what's the flavor that works in my organization? But the fact that like, that's how you tackle that problem is kind of fascinating. Wow. That is pretty cool. Who was like the most famous person that you got to rub shoulders with? That is one of the really unique things about being part of the World Economic Forum and Davos and that you meet these people who, you know, are just speaking on a session, you can go up to them afterwards and say hi. So there's three examples from the U.S. government that I was specifically trying to meet. One I didn't get to meet with. The first was the administrator, Samantha Power from USAID. I heard her speak and she was in a meeting with the compelling speaker. I tried to go to her afterwards and her staff had to like whisk her away to get to our next meeting because she was running late. But two others I got to meet,

Congressman Seth Moulton, who is an amazingly huge advocate for mental health in the United States. And he's also based in Massachusetts where I live. So that was great. And then I met Senator Joe Manchin as well from the U.S. government. But, you know, CEOs of multiple pharma companies and a lot of heads of state from different countries were there. I didn't personally meet with them. I met with them in the United States. But I know some of my fellow social entrepreneurs had a chance to. So lots of just amazing people there. Oh, I also got to meet Al Gore this time after he gave a speech on the environment. And part of what is special about that environment is like you can have a conversation with them without feeling like incredibly awkward. From all the listening that I did of coverage of the event, one thing that really came through was like a feeling of optimism. And I actually hear it a

little bit in your voice, too. I think before you went, you were sort of like, oh, this is a little bit absurd in various ways. And now hearing you reflect on it sounds like you really saw the benefit of these people coming together and having these conversations. And it's always better to be talking than not talking, I think. Yeah, definitely. Exactly as you said, I mean, I love the World Economic Forum and I'm very fortunate that we get to be a part of it. But it is double. And like some of the criticism is valid and warranted. I think what gives me optimism, you know, as you're saying, is really the opposite of what I'm used to. I think it's is really the opposite of what I'm used to. I think it's really the opposite of what I'm used to. I think really just the amazing work that I hear about from the social entrepreneurs, from innovators and people trying to tackle these problems. And it's it's so easy to be cynical

about any type of conference and any type of dialogue that people are having. But, you know, top to bottom, whether it was the CEO of a company or government, like people are trying to better understand these problems and are trying to solve for them. Like, are they trying to solve for them in their own priority list? Absolutely. A lot of the big businesses are trying to to figure out ESG because they have to, not because they necessarily wanted to. Popping in with a quick aside that ESG stands for environmental, social and governance.

But nonetheless, they're trying to solve it. Right. And so there are people really trying to wrap their heads around the problem, look for creative solutions. I will temper that optimism, enthusiasm with, you know, it was really scary hearing from the experts on the global economic outlook and the geopolitical conflicts we're seeing, you know, and I don't want to undermine how significant those could be going forward. Obviously, that's way beyond the scope of what we look at. But I think it's really, really important that we're looking at the global economic outlook and the global economic outlook. And I think that's something that, you know, it is worth tempering that optimism, enthusiasm, because while there's a lot to be excited about, there's also a lot to be concerned about. One really interesting fight people had on climate tech and climate change and how to feel about where we are right now.

I heard this great summary of saying, like, yeah, we're making tons of progress, but the gap gets bigger every year. And so why are people optimistic? And another speaker who was more optimistic said the gap keeps getting bigger every year because we keep getting more ambitious. And I thought that was an interesting summary of kind of how to think about many things, you know, in life of it does feel like it's widening, like our gap is there. But fortunately, part of that is due to our ambition. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jonathan. This is really, really fascinating to hear. And I appreciate you sharing some of your insights, because obviously not everyone gets to go to Davos. And thank you for joining.

Thanks, Amy. Thank you so much for listening. I wanted to share a couple of my takeaways from this conversation. So first is that, you know, criticism of the elitism of the World Economic Forum event aside, I definitely do see value in people getting together to dialogue and share ideas. I like how Jonathan framed it as really focused on the problems and not necessarily making decisions about all the solutions. Creating space to better understand and discuss the many pressing problems we're facing today definitely seems worthwhile. And I love that point about taking time to question the premise of the problem. The challenges we're facing today, and taking care of the world's population, will not be solved by the same thinking that got us here.

We need to think differently and be open to rethinking even the premise of the questions that we're asking. And that's one way we might be able to imagine a radically different and more equitable future. Second, I want to reiterate the message that Jonathan was sharing there, which is that given the complexity of the challenges we're facing globally, and regardless of what the challenge is, our frontline workforce will be critical to mitigating those challenges. So these can be critical, and I think it's important to think about the challenges we're facing, and to give military military military military military military military military military healthcare campaign workers, and so many more.

These are the people who will be at the front line of supporting our populations through change. And we will get nowhere if we can't make their jobs better. We need to be ensuring that our work, creating new digital technology to support them, actually makes our jobs better so they can create better outcomes. Third, there was a lot of talk about pandemic preparedness.

And I want to reiterate Jonathan's point, which is that pandemic preparedness is great, but the investments that we need to make are actually the same ones we need to make in routine healthcare. And lastly, despite all the talk about AI and some fears that it will replace jobs, Jonathan reiterated the potential for AI and other advanced technologies to amplify frontline work, not replace it. That's our show. Please like, rate, review, subscribe, and share this episode if you found it useful.

It really, really helps us. And if you have any questions, feel free to email us at podcast.damagi.com. For example, if this episode in particular spurred any questions, we'd love to hear from you. This show is executive produced by myself. Danielle Van Wick is our producer. Brianna DeRoos is our editor. And cover art is by Sudanshu Kang.

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